I used to go to a lot of events at London galleries where artists, art historians and art critics talked about their work. There have not been so many of these in recent years so I was particularly excited by the National Gallery’s new series: Picture This, in which broadcaster John Wilson is in conversation with ‘creative minds’  to ‘reflect on their life and work through the lens of a National Gallery painting’ (click here for more).

Last night’s ‘conversation’ was especially exciting for me as it was between two people I admire a lot. I’ve been a keen follower of John Wilson’s This Cultural Life (on BBC radio and TV) for some time so was keen to see him interview an artist live. And last night, that artist was the wonderful Maggi Hambling.

I’ve come to ‘know’ Maggi Hambling mostly through her sculpture, Scallop, on Aldeburgh beach, which I’ve written about here a few times. It’s something I just have to go to look at whenever I go to Aldeburgh. It’s the first thing I do.

A tribute to the composer Benjamin Britten, who lived in Aldeburgh, it has – like much of Maggi’s work – attracted much controversy, with local residents campaigning to have it removed. Fortunately, they haven’t succeeded. I find it incredibly moving whenever I stand by it. She says interacting with the sculpture is important: ‘a visitor may sit and contemplate the mysterious power of the sea’, and indeed I’ve often seen people sitting on it. What was slightly more surprising last night was Maggi’s suggestion that the people of Aldeburgh did not appreciate Britten as much as they should. He brought so much to the town through his music and the introduction of the annual musical festival (which still runs) and the building of Snape Maltings, an important music centre in the area, and with its own concert hall. I could only imagine as I listened that the comment alluded to him not always being welcomed because he lived with his male lover at a time when being gay was less accepted. Maggi has described herself as ‘lesbionic’. She has been living with fellow artist Victoria Lawrence in Suffolk since the mid 1980s. However, later, after listening to Wilson’s This Cultural Life interview with Maggi from 2022, I learnt that she believes the locals objected to him because he was a conscientious objector during WW2. (Do listen to this interview if you can, which is still on BBC Sounds.)

Other controversial sculptures include the Memorial to Oscar Wilde close to Charing Cross station in London in which Wilde’s head and arms stand out of a green granite coffin – or sarcophagus, as Maggi pointed out to John Wilson last night! They talked about how Wilde’s cigarette in the sculpture has been broken off three times. Maggi is known for her smoking, often photographed with a cigarette in her mouth and smoke drifting round her head. The point of Wilde’s cigarette in this sculpture though was it’s about having a conversation with him while you sit on the sarcophagus, which is formed like a bench. Death is quite a theme with Maggi Hambling and we learnt last night that she had drawn many people once they were dead, including her lover Henrietta Moraes, whose dead face was lit up on the screen last night. Maggi’s explanation when Wilson asked why she did this was it was her last chance to interact with a person; the last time she would see them. It was while discussing these drawings that Maggi once again pulled Wilson up, this time for using the word ‘sketches’. She doesn’t ‘sketch’, she does ‘drawings’ because ‘sketch’ implies something light and not serious.

Another controversial sculpture is her Memorial to Mary Wollstonecraft on Newington Green in north London, the ‘foremother of feminism’ and Wollstonecraft’s quote ‘I do not wish women to have power over men but over themselves’ appears on the plinth.

The supposed purpose of the ‘conversation’ last night was for Maggi Hambling to talk about a painting at the gallery which has strongly influenced her and the self portrait of Rembrandt, painted when he was 63 in the year he died (1669), was her choice. Apart from admiring his technique, Maggi said Rembrandt’s portraits didn’t judge people as those of other artists did. Famous as a portrait artist herself, she talked about how she approaches painting someone. She has to have a connection or it won’t work. Thus she turned down a commission to paint Margaret Thatcher but has painted people like George Melly (a friend of hers), Amy Winehouse, Andy Murray, Frances Bacon, and many others.

I’ve been so focused on thinking of Maggi Hambling in terms of the Scallop that I realised last night I knew very little about her really and was delighted to find out much more. She talked about her background and how her father, a bank manager, came to art once he retired and how this connection brought them closer and they even had joint exhibitions. We were shown her drawing of her dead father’s face. But career wise, I’d just had no idea. She became the first Artist in Residence at the National Gallery in 1980; has had a solo exhibition at the Hermitage in St Petersburg and taught at Wimbledon School of Art. Her paintings are included in the collections of many leading galleries, including Tate, Victoria & Albert, National Portrait and of course the National Gallery.

Maggi Hambling is quite ‘a character’, known for controversy and strong opinions, and I did wonder how John Wilson would ‘manage’ her. He didn’t always quite manage it, having to stop her talking about someone known as a local whore in case they got sued; when she lit her vape warning vapes can set off fire alarms too! But Wilson has interviewed her many times and thus it was joyous to see two people who got on well and respected each other’s work in conversation together. There was much laughter along the way. What a brilliant evening it was and what a fabulous series the National Gallery has started. I’m going to one with Wilson interviewing Michael Palin in June and very much looking forward to it.

And so to food … Well, I do call these posts ‘Art & Food’ and of course food and eating well is very important to me. I actually did the most obvious thing for me and went back to one of my favourites, Bancone to eat before the talk began at 7pm. It’s so close to the National Gallery that it was very convenient and a plate of pasta for an early evening supper perfect.

However, I went up to London a bit earlier than originally planned. The weather brightened in the afternoon and so I decided to set off earlier. I walked to Covent Garden from Waterloo and had an afternoon coffee in Santa Nata in New Row and – of course! – one of their delicious pastel de natas. Though cooler than a few days ago, more spring than summer, it was warm enough to sit at one of their tables outside.

 

After that, I wandered around for a while and then headed to Bancone where I’d booked a table – well a seat at the counter – for 5.30.

   

Excited by the prospect of the talk ahead, I was in a celebratory mood and ordered a glass of Prosecco as well as a carafe of sparkling water. I would have just two dishes – basically at Bancone there are just Antipasti, Pasta and Dessert. If you don’t like pasta, don’t go. There is nothing else! But everything is wonderful. When there with friends or family, we tend to chose two or three antipasti to share and then our own pasta dishes. Although the menu changes frequently, there is often Fried Artichoke, romesco, roasted nuts, which is absolutely a favourite dish. It was slightly different last night as the globe artichoke was a thick slice, including the leaves. It was so wonderfully crispy on the outside you could eat everything and inside the heart was deliciously creamy and soft. It was a brilliant dish. And their romesco sauce is always gorgeous – one of the best I know.

 

For my pasta dish I chose Bucatini cacio e pepe. I partly chose this for its simplicity but also because I don’t think I’ve ever had this classic dish – simply pasta, Pecorino cheese and cracked pepper – before and wanted to try it. It’s a wonderfully indulgent, rich and creamy dish.

I finished my meal with just a single espresso and my bill, with service, came to £42.

 

From Bancone, it was just a couple of minutes walk to the Sainsbury Wing of the National Gallery.

Inside a large screen advertised what was on that day (the gallery stays open till late on Fridays – 9pm).

Then at 6.30 we were let into the theatre where the talk would take place. As I was one of the first to arrive, I managed to get a seat near the front. While waiting for it to begin I got talking to a lovely woman – Alison – sitting next to me, who was down from the Midlands for the day and was, impressively, on her fifth gallery. We enthused about Hambling and discovered we’d enjoyed the same book, Thunderclap, which has an art theme. It made the half hour wait to the start very enjoyable.

Then the next hour was simply brilliant. It was all I’d hoped for and I can’t wait until I go back in June. Though before then a planned short break in Aldeburgh will take me to Maggi Hambling’s wonderful Scallop again and after this talk, I shall see it in a new and interesting light.